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Craig's List called, they want their sellers back

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  • Craig's List called, they want their sellers back

    Anymore, it's like TZSC is mostly just hype, overblown adjectives and inflated, well, inflated everything. Is it just me?

    This morning, I saw a person I've seen on SC for awhile now "marketing" three mostly worthless early seventies Seiko LCD watches as a "trilogy" and let me save you the time of clicking on the link. They were in a condition that would Cliff Helander blush.

    Sigh...

  • #2
    Not just that, the "hobbyist professionals" make me weep inside.
    Project Alaska at a killer price of 2500. Instantly bought and immediately re-listed at 4200 or so by one of them. Value added? Nope.

    I know, I know, free market is good. Still I can't help but shake my head.

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    • #3
      Are you kidding me

      Someone sold an AP for $2500?

      And yeah, the whole flipping thing just makes me sleepy anymore. And not build up my own thing, but I remember how much fun I used to have digging through eBay to find hidden gems. Polishing them up, taking some nice pictures and yes, making a few (and I do mean a few) bucks here and there. Now everything on eBay is "RARE" and "COLLECTIBLE". Even parts of watches junked for their gold cases (which is another travesty of mindless greed).

      The whole flipping, watch collecting thing smells too much like the real estate bubble. "Real estate will always increase in value" Sure, until it doesn't. A million or more Rolexes a year yet every one gains value, every year? And there are collectors with safes full of them, hundreds of them. Seriously? Is tulip mania wiped from our collective memory?

      Sorry to be so preachy but nearly every trend in what used to a much beloved hobby has only served to set me off the whole thing. And you know what? All the people who love it now, good for them. Good for the "hobbyist professionals" who aren't dealers but sell and list thousands and tens of thousands of dollars of "TZ's best rating" watches every month.

      It's just not for me.

      And if I slow down here, yeah, that's why. I love everyone here (I really do) and the discussion and all that but at some point, it gets tedious sitting on the sidelines, always making the same snarky comment ("I am not -yourcompaniesnamehere- target customer"). I get tired of being negative all the time. I weary of hoping for the crash that will set things back to what I think may be a more sustainable path. I'll admit it, I'm priced out of the hobby. And I'm tired (maybe I need a nap) of looking at over-designed junk that really only serves one purpose, to separate more fat bags of money from people who obviously have much more than they can possibly use.

      So yes, I do admit. It's resentment to an extent. Maybe I'd feel differently if I had five or ten grand a year to blow on watches and play the game. I'm not really moralizing as much as I am nostalgic about the part of the hobby I used to be able to play in.

      That's all.

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      • #4
        Why did I go look?

        And right there at the top, $4200 for an AP.

        (long, long rant redacted)

        And then, not far below, someone posted this...

        "Hello everyone, these quartz Omega models are rapidly becoming collector’s items!"

        Really? Why? Because they're quartz? Or maybe because the quartz models have always been slow sellers and thus sold for less which, ironically, creates a wonderful flipping opportunity. Maybe that's why. Maybe.

        A little further below, the ring watch. $575. I guess that's a deal. Of some kind. It's a darn cool piece.

        And shouldn't there be a rule that you can't use the words "Rolex" and "Tudor" consecutively? I mean, we are supposed be informed about these things right. Is it really necessary to pad, just one little bit more, every single Tudor listing? Does it really convince someone? Are there people who's inner narrative have this conversation, "So, I've seen ten of these Tudor watches but this one says "ROLEX TUDOR" so it must be better in some way, right?"

        A little further on, why does it tweak me that Jurgen is selling aluminum Rolex parts boxes for $42.50? Could we, quite literally, emblazon the Rolex logo on anything and increase its value?

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        • #5
          Yep it has changed a lot but I can't see the bubble bursting in the near future. The industry has reinvented itself and become something quite far removed from time keeping. It is mind boggling how many, like the frog-noir, exist simply as displays of wealth. Whether it is dripping in diamonds or simply an outrageously expensive fashion item the overriding message is the owner has money to burn and wants you to see him do it.

          This is a different message to the one conveyed by a familiar Rolex on the wrist of a professional and it is interesting that Rolex was one of the last companies to overhaul its line for the new extravagance market.

          Unfortunately, high-end watch companies have largely left the watch market and I don't think they'll be back any time soon.
          Last edited by DavidM1; 05-05-2012, 08:27 PM.
          DavidM1

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          • #6
            Lot of truth to that. Even the best, like Rolex and JLC, have models that cater to that market.

            Of course, they also still make Air-Kings, Datejusts, and Reversos...for those willing to pay the increased ticket price. One thing that drew me to the Reverso 976 is its simplicity. No diamonds. No bling. No flash. And you almost have to have a loupe to see the logo on the dial. Very understated. Classy. And unfortunately, a rare form of presentation.
            Last edited by Cat91; 05-05-2012, 11:47 PM.

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            • #7
              Russell, as usual you said it so well.

              I can't count the idle hours I used to spend cruising Sales Corner, finding a bargain, enjoying the heck out of it for a while, then sending it onwards to offset the new incoming. The best part was that people were mostly polite, honorable, and realistic.

              Today? Most stuff is "rare" and overpriced when they're selling, "not a popular model"or worth far less than market price when they're buying. Promises have the sincerity of "sure I'll love you in the morning". Courtesy? Never heard of the guy.

              Endless variations of Offshores, Big Bangs, and Big Pilots. The Nataf Thierry school of design (which has infected even JLC and UN).

              Yeah, it's a major turnoff. I don't buy or sell much anymore. I read the boards but don't post much. And so many old friends have wandered off into other pursuits. Just not the same.

              Sigh. I feel like a character in Grumpy Old Men!

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              • #8
                me too

                really

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                • #9
                  Jeez Gents- the glass is half full too

                  Things have absolutely changed from when I started collecting in about 1990, and there are far fewer places I scan daily for cool deals but those watches are still out there. TZ is not the end all be all. I recall when EOT was perhaps the board for posting and selling pieces that were fun- like doxa and technos and enicar etc-- now you have to dig deeper. BTW just because people list at silly high prices doesnt mean they sell them. I dont look backwards and think I wish it was that way now but I do look backwards fondly. Things change, everything does.

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                  • #10
                    Well said Pat .............

                    I started collecting Watches in 1974 and remember similar complaints back then
                    about how things had changed.

                    The web has changed everything (in a good and bad way). In thirty seconds
                    I can scan the globe for the Watch I want usually at the price I want too. I found
                    a Citizen Signature Grand Comp. from a great E-Bay dealer in Florida yesterday for almost 50% off retail. It gets delivered tomorrow.

                    I've also had to deal with the slugs and knuckleheads that troll some of the boards.
                    On balance though, I like the way things have evolved.

                    Kurt
                    "So Many Watches / So Little Time"

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                    • #11
                      Easier for me, I've had practice ...

                      For the Grumpy Old Men of the world of audio (of which I am a proud member), the downhill slide began when those evil, shiny silver discs were introduced ...and things only got worse when that lesser format was replaced by devices that store files. Now audio stores are all but extinct.

                      I'm with you on the watches 100%. I still cruise the SC now and again, only to quickly find out why I rarely do that anymore.

                      It seems the entire industry has its panties in a bunch.

                      Since I got my Kairos I've wanted a Chronoswiss deployant and strap. The strap that came with my Kairos was shot when I got it and a year later its even shotter (not a word, but you get my point).

                      I kept seeing ads for Chronoswiss straps that said "Dealers get $450 for these, my price $270."

                      I know straps can be pricey, but $450 for a Chronoswiss strap? No.

                      So, I called Chronoswiss and they would gladly sell me a strap for $270, which is MSRP. So, it is safe to assume dealer cost is around $135.

                      So, are these sellers buying straps at MSRP and trying to double up, or are they buying them at dealer cost and hoping buyers are fools?

                      After searching for a year I could not find a brown croc, 20/18 Chronoswiss strap from a re-seller (Authorized dealer or otherwise) for $270, let alone discounted from that. Having been well trained by AnotherDon and Sir Whichwatch, I will not pay MSRP for a strap.

                      As for the deployant, MSRP is $500. So, good luck with that.

                      Its disgusting.

                      There is a happy ending though. I found a NOS deployant and a black strap (95% condition), plus a tang and a pair of lug bars + screws on FleaBay for $260 ...for the whole shebang. So, I'll stick the strap on the SC, along with the other bits and pieces to offset the cost of the deployant.

                      I wonder if I should ask $270 for the strap?

                      Pat is right, things change. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not so much.

                      For some of us (like me), change is almost always bad. I prefer things stay the same. Once I get comfortable, I like to stay comfortable. Change is almost always uncomfortable. Change is like a new pair of shoes ...you spend a lot of time trying to make them as comfortable as the ones they replaced.
                      _____

                      You know that you're over the hill when your mind makes a promise that your body can't fill.

                      Little Feat

                      _____

                      dean.

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