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  • Rolex-Louis Rossel ?

    Morning all, i dont know if this one has popped up before, apologies if this is the case.

    As part of my research into the history of Louis Rossel I came across this Rolex-Louis Rossel. Has anyone seen one of these before?

    The listing Information on this particular watch is as follows:

    ROLEX, Oyster Chronographe, "Louis Rossel", Anti-Magnetique, "Base 1000", "Telemetre", so-called. "Monoblocco", Ref no. 3525, Serial No. 386436,
    Cal Valjoux 23, Boett no. 3525, chronograph, male, 35 mm, steel, manual, plexiglass, damaged dial , leather strap, approx date 1946 .....1946??

    Words of wisdom welcomed

    Cheers
    Andrew
    Attached Files

  • #2
    It wasn't uncommon through much of the 1900s for major brands (Omega, Rolex, Hamilton, Longines, etc.) to add the name of a high-end retailer to their watch, for sale at those outlets (Turler, Cartier, Tiffany, etc.), even when those retailers had eponymous watch and jewelry lines. This may explain the LR connection, if we could establish that LR had a shop/boutique (or many).
    Last edited by Watch Carefully; 01-05-2018, 09:28 AM.
    Time is Money, except on Dark Side of the Moon

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Watch Carefully View Post
      It wasn't uncommon through much of the 1900s for major brands (Omega, Rolex, Hamilton, Longines, etc.) to add the name of a high-end retailer to their watch, for sale at those outlets (Turler, Cartier, Tiffany, etc.), even when those retailers had eponymous watch and jewelry lines. This may explain the LR connection, if we could establish that LR had a shop/boutique (or many).
      Interesting Brad.
      Its just that a rather large spanner has just been neatly lobbed into the machinery if this is in fact a 1946 watch ...it cant be 1946 surely? the guy listing this is guessing... because LR was 'officially' registered in 1977 , but as Henry has pointed out LR was clearly around in the late sixties so we know that the 1977 date is incorrect but it cant go back that far surely ?
      Can+Worms+Open= headache .

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Grantag View Post
        Interesting Brad.
        Its just that a rather large spanner has just been neatly lobbed into the machinery if this is in fact a 1946 watch ...it cant be 1946 surely? the guy listing this is guessing... because LR was 'officially' registered in 1977 , but as Henry has pointed out LR was clearly around in the late sixties so we know that the 1977 date is incorrect but it cant go back that far surely ?
        Can+Worms+Open= headache .
        This is much like the Rado conundrum.
        If you read Bruce Shawkey's articles on Rado (final installment below), you'll have seen that Rado claims 1957 as year of the brand's inception. However, variations of an undeniably 1930s-era watch have been seen with Rado Watch Co. marked on the movement:



        As indicated in the text, Rado claims they did not make it, and Bruce speculated that another company devised the name Rado prior to Schlup & Co. adopting it.
        The same may be true of this use of the Louis Rossel name (attributable also to at least one historical figure, whereby the name may have derived).
        Last edited by Watch Carefully; 01-05-2018, 10:21 AM.
        Time is Money, except on Dark Side of the Moon

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Watch Carefully View Post
          This is much like the Rado conundrum.
          If you read Bruce Shawkey's articles on Rado (final installment below), you'll have seen that Rado claims 1957 as year of the brand's inception. However, variations of an undeniably 1930s-era watch have been seen with Rado Watch Co. marked on the movement:



          Bruce wrote that Rado claims they did not make it, and he speculated that another company devised the name Rado prior to Schlup & Co. adopting it.
          The same may be true of this use of the Louis Rossel name (attributable also to at least one historical figure, whereby the name may have derived).
          Hmmm, I kept bumping into old Louis Rossel himself on my travels through the ether, however i did note that old Fritz Petitpierre had logged a second name at his address when he was younger as Louis Petitpierre, so perhaps it was an alter ego,or a lost brother, or his dad's name but quite where Rossel came from i dont know , but a tie-in with Rolex just seems a bit left-field . I need to do more digging .

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Grantag View Post
            ...a tie-in with Rolex just seems a bit left-field ...
            Agreed--anything that says Rolex will get attention.
            This, however, is undoubtedly an authentic Rolex with the LR name added (most likely, in-period).
            If it were some questionable LR with the Rolex name added, we'd be suspicious.
            In this case, it raises the question: Why on earth would a faker deface a Rolex with an obscure second label? Especially when the watch was new or nearly so? It had not yet become collectible...so must be authentic.

            Good luck on the search!!
            Time is Money, except on Dark Side of the Moon

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Andrew, I'm at work so can't look it up right now but I think there's a famous historical figure by the name of LR that this Rolex could be named after. Perhaps the LR brand is also named after him. The Balboa Rados are, for instance ,named after a Spanish explorer........just a thought.
              Last edited by Tim.; 01-05-2018, 11:57 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                My NCC-404 is from Türler and had their name added to the dial at (or just before) time of purchase. I am pretty sure i have seen Tiffany sub-branded Rados too.

                IMG_1086.jpg

                I had always assumed that certain boutiques we special enough to elevate your watch from the norm to something exceptional by purchasing from them and as such their additional sub branding was desirable at the time. Now days it takes something that was already rare and makes it even rarer (Hodinkee had an article on a Tiffany sub branded Rolex last year from memory).

                Is it possible given how many sub brands that were associated with Louis Rossel that he has a watch boutique to sell them too? Alternatively, is it also possible that Louis Rossel was the boutique that spawned the name for future watches?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tim. View Post
                  Hi Andrew, I'm at work so can't look it up right now but I think there's a famous historical figure by the name of LR that this Rolex could be named after. Perhaps the LR brand is also named after him. The Balboa Rados are, for instance ,named after a Spanish explorer........just a thought.
                  I always thought that they were named after Sylvester Stallone's pugilist character

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FUTURA View Post
                    Is it possible given how many sub brands that were associated with Louis Rossel that he has a watch boutique to sell them too? Alternatively, is it also possible that Louis Rossel was the boutique that spawned the name for future watches?
                    Good ideas!
                    Time is Money, except on Dark Side of the Moon

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Grantag View Post
                      Interesting Brad.
                      Its just that a rather large spanner has just been neatly lobbed into the machinery if this is in fact a 1946 watch ...it cant be 1946 surely? the guy listing this is guessing... because LR was 'officially' registered in 1977 , but as Henry has pointed out LR was clearly around in the late sixties so we know that the 1977 date is incorrect but it cant go back that far surely ?
                      Can+Worms+Open= headache .

                      It may be unrelated too. Louis Rossel himslef was an infamous Frenchman and military officer. He joined a rebellion against the French government in the...1870s (?), was caught tried and executed. He remained popular among certain circles of society. He was very left wing, so the post war socialist elites in France may have been fond of him.
                      Solve all your doubts through question mode.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Henry Krinkle View Post
                        It may be unrelated too. Louis Rossel himslef was an infamous Frenchman and military officer. He joined a rebellion against the French government in the...1870s (?), was caught tried and executed. He remained popular among certain circles of society. He was very left wing, so the post war socialist elites in France may have been fond of him.
                        I have a feeling that this might be a 'wrong-un' Henry. Ive looked at many Rolex 3525's today and none of them match this one. There are a few subtle differences on this one's face apart from the 'Louis Rossel' the lettering is different at the top and the sub-dials look flat , almost as though printed onto paper. A genuine 3525 has sub-dials compressed into the face material, and the movement is different in a couple of areas . I laid this ones movement over another genuine movement image in photoshop and reduced the opacity so that i could see if the parts matches and they dont fully match. Im also cautious about the amount of patina. The swirling marks around the sub-dial would suggest that it has scraped the paint in a circular motion, but how often does a sub-dial sit spinning ?
                        So, whilst im not prepared to put a month's wages on it i feel that it might not be all it's cracked up to be so i wrote to the Rolex Forum Administrator for some help. If they get back to me ill let you know.
                        Whilst

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Grantag View Post
                          Hmmm, I kept bumping into old Louis Rossel himself on my travels through the ether, however i did note that old Fritz Petitpierre had logged a second name at his address when he was younger as Louis Petitpierre, so perhaps it was an alter ego,or a lost brother, or his dad's name but quite where Rossel came from i dont know , but a tie-in with Rolex just seems a bit left-field . I need to do more digging .
                          Andrew, no doubt you've already come across this in your search. Just incase you haven't. Further confusion! Note the section at the bottom: About H & E Rossel watch Co.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tim. View Post
                            Andrew, no doubt you've already come across this in your search. Just incase you haven't. Further confusion! Note the section at the bottom: About H & E Rossel watch Co.
                            Tim you are a legend. No I hadnt come across this piece of info before. I note that its in German. Most of my research was in French. I know that the Swiss speak French, German, Italian and Romansh however much of the info available was in French. Tim I am going to have to investigate further and Mrs G is home from Oz on Monday and I wont be able to spend 2 weeks hunched over the laptop researching things... Better get my skates on. Sorry Scott i cant listen to your House music, far too relaxing, I need some AC/DC to get me moving.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well ive had the question posted on the Rolex forum for a couple of days , its had 311 hits and one reply. No one knows anything about it ....so far .
                              The plot grows thicker.

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